2005 En primeur

[uncle tom]

Fine & Rare Wines are listing quite a stash of '05's - prices exclude both VAT and duty, so much too high for my liking.

Croft Quinta da Roeda (Hlv) 147

Croft Quinta da Roeda (6xBt) 75

Fonseca Guimaraens (6xBt) 85

Quinta da Senhora da Ribeira (6xBt) 130

Quinta de Roriz (6xBt) 126

Quinta de Roriz (Mg) 248

Quinta de Terra Feita (6xBt) 90

Quinta de Terra Feita (Hlv) 176

Quinta do Panascal (Hlv) 166

Quinta do Panascal (6xBt) 85

Quinta do Vesuvio (6xBt) 160

Quinta do Vesuvio (3xMg) 160

Taylor's Quinta de Vargellas (Hlv) 209

Taylor's Quinta de Vargellas (6xBt) 104

Note the mags of Vesuvio - a first, I think!

Tom

[KillerB]

Well, just looking at Terra Feita at £15 per bottle, then adding tax and VAT puts it up beyond the retail price of the 1999s in Majestic (£17.99), so it's hardly run to the shippers time. As for halves at just under the price of bottles - no ta.

[Frederick Blais]

Well, just looking at Terra Feita at £15 per bottle, then adding tax and VAT puts it up beyond the retail price of the 1999s in Majestic (£17.99), so it's hardly run to the shippers time. As for halves at just under the price of bottles - no ta.

Still it is 50% cheaper than Canada I think I'm moving to England, I'd save so much on Port that I could afford it

I've seen magnums of Vesuvio in 2000(in my cellar) my guess is that they release some each year.

[Conky]

I've never understood this En Primeur lark. It guarantees you get a case or two in pristine condition from the manufacturer at a bloated price. This usually being an item that is never hard to find over the forthcoming years. Then you have to store it for 20years and watch the price often drop.

If I'm missing something in my Port Knowledge, I'd be grateful of a hand???

Alan

[Frederick Blais]

The En primeur system is coming from the Bordeaux region that invented it in the 70's to counter the lack of founds to repair the vineyards and installation.

You want to sell the wines earlier and cheaper than the market price so people are buying it. You get the money now for the wines you'll give in 2 years, so you can use the money right now.

It used to be a great value for the customers but I don't think it is right now. For Bordeaux, it is mainly a way to speculate. As for Port, well the price is not increasing, so there is no need for Primeur, especially that they release it like only 6 months before it hits the market (non-sense!). Yes if you buy them now they will be cheaper than in 6 months on the market, though a year or two later, there will be a sell-out for the surplus(another non-sense).

[Conky]

Thanks Fred.

So does anyone have anything good to say about this system and how its working now???

If there isn't much good news, how do they keep it going? Is it just because its an additional way of selling for anyone daft enough to use it?

Alan

[KillerB]

I've bought Bordeaux En Primeur many times but would not consider it for Port, unless I was getting a pipe for a child. I know we shouldn't make them smoke...

[DRT]

Does anyone want to accept a bet against AHB having a case of Vesuvio 05 plus a few of those Mags En Premeur?

Derek

[Conky]

And if he has, will he explain the benefits coz we're running a bit short of them on the Port side of things!

[DRT]

There is no benefit to be had other than to feed his OVD

Derek

[Conky]

Go on...Whats OVD?

[Andy Velebil]

Go on...Whats OVD?

i was think the same thing

[Conky]

I've just spotted V is by C on the keyboard.

Was it OCD - Obssessive Compulsive Disorder?

Which still doesn't make much sense, but at least its a known abbreviation.

[Alex Bridgeman]

OCD is a good guess at what Derek is referring to. OVD is Obsessive Vesuvio Disorder and is Derek demonstrating that he is jealous of my Vesuvio vertical and the fact that Vesuvio makes up 50% (or whatever figure is actually correct) of my port cellar.

Interestingly, I have already spoken to my pet wine merchant about the Vesuvio '05s and have told them that I can see absolutely no point in buying any of these en primeur. I will almost certainly buy some when shipped but will wait for the discounts before buying more than just the one case.

There are only two benefits to the consumer of buying en primeur:
(1) to secure wines with pristine provenance that might otherwise to hard to get hold of in the second hand market. The best current example would be Vargellas Vinha Velha.
(2) to secure wines at an advantageous price - there are still some examples of when this might be true. Taylor and Vesuvio '94 come to mind here.

However, I think the en primeur market has gone a bit daft if we are now being offered Roeda and Panascal. Why on earth would we want to buy these before bottling and shipping? I also note with some mild interest that all of the wines bar Vesuvio - which the Symingtons have always offered en primeur - are from the Taylor stable. I wonder if this is now a deliberate policy of their's?

There is also one other point to note about en primeur offers. Often a merchant is leant on heavily by the producer to buy from the producer en primeur. If the producer has more demand that product available then buying this way - even in relatively low key years like 2005 - might be the only way the merchant can secure the volumes of product he wants in the top years. And if the merchant has to buy en primeur then he will surely offer the wines to his customers on the same terms.

Alex

[uncle tom]

In January last year, I bought a dozen Vesuvio '94 from Christies for £260 - after adding BP and delivery, that works out at £25/bottle - slightly less than the en primeur price ten years previously, after duty & VAT is paid.

I don't think that was a stellar bargain - perhaps one bid below the norm.

Roriz and Senhora da Ribeira are both marketed by the Sym's. Roriz is owned by the Van Zeller's, but run by the Symingtons, and S da R is one of the Sym's Dow quintas.

Tom

[Michael M.]

The only shop in my area (180 km) I know offering en primeur is in Amsterdam/The Netherlands. Look here http://www.tonovermars.nl/Vintage_Port_ ... _2005.html

The prices in general are rather cheap.

A price of 25 GBP for Vesuvio 1994 would be to light some candles in a church. The best price I Know is 63 EUR.

BTW: I purchased last weekend 2 bottles of Martinez La Eira Velha 1994 for 24 EUR/bottle. Although additional shipping costs of 32 EUR I am very happy about 40 EUR/bottle.

Cheers
Yours Cruz Ruby

[KillerB]

Ahh, we know of Ton Overmars. Our Dutch correspondents StevieCage and the Rootses often mention this shop. I really must take a peek next time I'm in Amsterdam.

[uncle tom]

Michael,

I don't have any Vesuvio '94 to spare, but next time you're in the UK, I could sort you a bottle of Vesuvio '00 for £25 - or a case of 6 Vesuvio '96's for £80.

- I'll even throw in a candle!

Tom

[Michael M.]

Tom,

a good reason to visit UK for the first time . Or, instead I would have to wait until my last day on earth. I am shure I would find those UK-prices in heaven too .

In my area there are some british NATO troups. I think I will have to ask, if there are some Port geeks, purchasing in the UK.

[uncle tom]

In my area there are some british NATO troups. I think I will have to ask, if there are some Port geeks, purchasing in the UK

Port is very much part of the British Officer's mess tradition - the regular soldiers usually drink lager...

Tom

[Conky]

Now there's a Port I've not heard anyone talk about before. The Martinez La Eira Velha. Thats the 'Not a Declaration Year' Port, isn't it, like the Fonseca Guimaraens and other types.
Any views on that one? We've nothing in the Tasting Notes Section?

Michael, have you any plans to try one soon?

Alan

[Michael M.]

Alan,

the two bottles are destined for the cellar. But I had the same idea as you obviously had. Curious: In the same year Martinez VP 1994 and SQVP Quinta da Eira Velha 1994- all the more as Martinez VP contains the grapes of Quinta La Eira Velha. I do have the information, that James Suckling rated the Martinez VP 1994 points 95 and the Quinta La Eira Velha 97 points . Mr. Mayson says in his book, that in certain years Quinta La Eira Velha could be outstandig. I also have a case of 12 of Martinez VP 1994. If I try the first one I will report. There are some threads from StevieCage and others on winespectator forum. For instance you' ll have a look here http://forums.winespectator.com/eve/for ... #192105263

Had this evening Niepoort Senior Tawny- yummy. Goto sleep lucky.

[uncle tom]

I've got a case of Eira Velha '94 - well reviewed by Mayson - but have yet to open a bottle.

My steadily expanding database of known vintage ports - currently standing 1438 entries - has a bit of a question mark over Martinez and Eira Velha.

My issue is whether Martinez has sometimes been producing a blend AND an Eira Velha SQ in the same year - I have references to both in the years 2000, 1994, 1978 & 1975, but it's possible that they are one and the same.

- Can anyone enlighten me?

Tom

[Conky]

Tom,

your usually good at this sort of question. Is it unusual to make the VP and the 'lesser' vintage Port in the same year?

And if its not, I wonder what brought it on that year with this Martinez?

If Tom struggles, anyone else?

Alan

[Frederick Blais]

It is very unsual. Well only a few companies are doing it. Fonseca is releasing Qta da Panascal, Niepoort is releasing Secudum and Ramos Pinto Qta da Ervamoira. The most consistent of doing so over the years has been Fonseca. Close of doing so is Dow's that release 2 SQVP when not releasing classic VP.