2005 En primeur
- uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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2005 En primeur
Fine & Rare Wines are listing quite a stash of '05's - prices exclude both VAT and duty, so much too high for my liking.
Croft Quinta da Roeda (Hlv) 147
Croft Quinta da Roeda (6xBt) 75
Fonseca Guimaraens (6xBt) 85
Quinta da Senhora da Ribeira (6xBt) 130
Quinta de Roriz (6xBt) 126
Quinta de Roriz (Mg) 248
Quinta de Terra Feita (6xBt) 90
Quinta de Terra Feita (Hlv) 176
Quinta do Panascal (Hlv) 166
Quinta do Panascal (6xBt) 85
Quinta do Vesuvio (6xBt) 160
Quinta do Vesuvio (3xMg) 160
Taylor's Quinta de Vargellas (Hlv) 209
Taylor's Quinta de Vargellas (6xBt) 104
Note the mags of Vesuvio - a first, I think!
Tom
Croft Quinta da Roeda (Hlv) 147
Croft Quinta da Roeda (6xBt) 75
Fonseca Guimaraens (6xBt) 85
Quinta da Senhora da Ribeira (6xBt) 130
Quinta de Roriz (6xBt) 126
Quinta de Roriz (Mg) 248
Quinta de Terra Feita (6xBt) 90
Quinta de Terra Feita (Hlv) 176
Quinta do Panascal (Hlv) 166
Quinta do Panascal (6xBt) 85
Quinta do Vesuvio (6xBt) 160
Quinta do Vesuvio (3xMg) 160
Taylor's Quinta de Vargellas (Hlv) 209
Taylor's Quinta de Vargellas (6xBt) 104
Note the mags of Vesuvio - a first, I think!
Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
- Frederick Blais
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Still it is 50% cheaper than Canada I think I'm moving to England, I'd save so much on Port that I could afford itKillerB wrote:Well, just looking at Terra Feita at £15 per bottle, then adding tax and VAT puts it up beyond the retail price of the 1999s in Majestic (£17.99), so it's hardly run to the shippers time. As for halves at just under the price of bottles - no ta.
I've seen magnums of Vesuvio in 2000(in my cellar) my guess is that they release some each year.
I've never understood this En Primeur lark. It guarantees you get a case or two in pristine condition from the manufacturer at a bloated price. This usually being an item that is never hard to find over the forthcoming years. Then you have to store it for 20years and watch the price often drop.
If I'm missing something in my Port Knowledge, I'd be grateful of a hand???
Alan
If I'm missing something in my Port Knowledge, I'd be grateful of a hand???
Alan
- Frederick Blais
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The En primeur system is coming from the Bordeaux region that invented it in the 70's to counter the lack of founds to repair the vineyards and installation.
You want to sell the wines earlier and cheaper than the market price so people are buying it. You get the money now for the wines you'll give in 2 years, so you can use the money right now.
It used to be a great value for the customers but I don't think it is right now. For Bordeaux, it is mainly a way to speculate. As for Port, well the price is not increasing, so there is no need for Primeur, especially that they release it like only 6 months before it hits the market (non-sense!). Yes if you buy them now they will be cheaper than in 6 months on the market, though a year or two later, there will be a sell-out for the surplus(another non-sense).
You want to sell the wines earlier and cheaper than the market price so people are buying it. You get the money now for the wines you'll give in 2 years, so you can use the money right now.
It used to be a great value for the customers but I don't think it is right now. For Bordeaux, it is mainly a way to speculate. As for Port, well the price is not increasing, so there is no need for Primeur, especially that they release it like only 6 months before it hits the market (non-sense!). Yes if you buy them now they will be cheaper than in 6 months on the market, though a year or two later, there will be a sell-out for the surplus(another non-sense).
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- Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
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- Alex Bridgeman
- Graham’s 1948
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OCD is a good guess at what Derek is referring to. OVD is Obsessive Vesuvio Disorder and is Derek demonstrating that he is jealous of my Vesuvio vertical and the fact that Vesuvio makes up 50% (or whatever figure is actually correct) of my port cellar.
Interestingly, I have already spoken to my pet wine merchant about the Vesuvio '05s and have told them that I can see absolutely no point in buying any of these en primeur. I will almost certainly buy some when shipped but will wait for the discounts before buying more than just the one case.
There are only two benefits to the consumer of buying en primeur:
(1) to secure wines with pristine provenance that might otherwise to hard to get hold of in the second hand market. The best current example would be Vargellas Vinha Velha.
(2) to secure wines at an advantageous price - there are still some examples of when this might be true. Taylor and Vesuvio '94 come to mind here.
However, I think the en primeur market has gone a bit daft if we are now being offered Roeda and Panascal. Why on earth would we want to buy these before bottling and shipping? I also note with some mild interest that all of the wines bar Vesuvio - which the Symingtons have always offered en primeur - are from the Taylor stable. I wonder if this is now a deliberate policy of their's?
There is also one other point to note about en primeur offers. Often a merchant is leant on heavily by the producer to buy from the producer en primeur. If the producer has more demand that product available then buying this way - even in relatively low key years like 2005 - might be the only way the merchant can secure the volumes of product he wants in the top years. And if the merchant has to buy en primeur then he will surely offer the wines to his customers on the same terms.
Alex
Interestingly, I have already spoken to my pet wine merchant about the Vesuvio '05s and have told them that I can see absolutely no point in buying any of these en primeur. I will almost certainly buy some when shipped but will wait for the discounts before buying more than just the one case.
There are only two benefits to the consumer of buying en primeur:
(1) to secure wines with pristine provenance that might otherwise to hard to get hold of in the second hand market. The best current example would be Vargellas Vinha Velha.
(2) to secure wines at an advantageous price - there are still some examples of when this might be true. Taylor and Vesuvio '94 come to mind here.
However, I think the en primeur market has gone a bit daft if we are now being offered Roeda and Panascal. Why on earth would we want to buy these before bottling and shipping? I also note with some mild interest that all of the wines bar Vesuvio - which the Symingtons have always offered en primeur - are from the Taylor stable. I wonder if this is now a deliberate policy of their's?
There is also one other point to note about en primeur offers. Often a merchant is leant on heavily by the producer to buy from the producer en primeur. If the producer has more demand that product available then buying this way - even in relatively low key years like 2005 - might be the only way the merchant can secure the volumes of product he wants in the top years. And if the merchant has to buy en primeur then he will surely offer the wines to his customers on the same terms.
Alex
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
- uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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In January last year, I bought a dozen Vesuvio '94 from Christies for £260 - after adding BP and delivery, that works out at £25/bottle - slightly less than the en primeur price ten years previously, after duty & VAT is paid.
I don't think that was a stellar bargain - perhaps one bid below the norm.
Roriz and Senhora da Ribeira are both marketed by the Sym's. Roriz is owned by the Van Zeller's, but run by the Symingtons, and S da R is one of the Sym's Dow quintas.
Tom
I don't think that was a stellar bargain - perhaps one bid below the norm.
Roriz and Senhora da Ribeira are both marketed by the Sym's. Roriz is owned by the Van Zeller's, but run by the Symingtons, and S da R is one of the Sym's Dow quintas.
Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
- Michael M.
- Quinta do Noval LBV
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The only shop in my area (180 km) I know offering en primeur is in Amsterdam/The Netherlands. Look here http://www.tonovermars.nl/Vintage_Port_ ... _2005.html
The prices in general are rather cheap.
A price of 25 GBP for Vesuvio 1994 would be to light some candles in a church. The best price I Know is 63 EUR.
BTW: I purchased last weekend 2 bottles of Martinez La Eira Velha 1994 for 24 EUR/bottle. Although additional shipping costs of 32 EUR I am very happy about 40 EUR/bottle.
Cheers
Yours Cruz Ruby
The prices in general are rather cheap.
A price of 25 GBP for Vesuvio 1994 would be to light some candles in a church. The best price I Know is 63 EUR.
BTW: I purchased last weekend 2 bottles of Martinez La Eira Velha 1994 for 24 EUR/bottle. Although additional shipping costs of 32 EUR I am very happy about 40 EUR/bottle.
Cheers
Yours Cruz Ruby
Shut Up 'N Drink Yer Port
- uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Michael,
I don't have any Vesuvio '94 to spare, but next time you're in the UK, I could sort you a bottle of Vesuvio '00 for £25 - or a case of 6 Vesuvio '96's for £80.
- I'll even throw in a candle!
Tom
I don't have any Vesuvio '94 to spare, but next time you're in the UK, I could sort you a bottle of Vesuvio '00 for £25 - or a case of 6 Vesuvio '96's for £80.
- I'll even throw in a candle!
Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
- Michael M.
- Quinta do Noval LBV
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Tom,
a good reason to visit UK for the first time . Or, instead I would have to wait until my last day on earth. I am shure I would find those UK-prices in heaven too .
In my area there are some british NATO troups. I think I will have to ask, if there are some Port geeks, purchasing in the UK.
a good reason to visit UK for the first time . Or, instead I would have to wait until my last day on earth. I am shure I would find those UK-prices in heaven too .
In my area there are some british NATO troups. I think I will have to ask, if there are some Port geeks, purchasing in the UK.
Shut Up 'N Drink Yer Port
- uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Port is very much part of the British Officer's mess tradition - the regular soldiers usually drink lager...In my area there are some british NATO troups. I think I will have to ask, if there are some Port geeks, purchasing in the UK
Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
Now there's a Port I've not heard anyone talk about before. The Martinez La Eira Velha. Thats the 'Not a Declaration Year' Port, isn't it, like the Fonseca Guimaraens and other types.
Any views on that one? We've nothing in the Tasting Notes Section?
Michael, have you any plans to try one soon?
Alan
Any views on that one? We've nothing in the Tasting Notes Section?
Michael, have you any plans to try one soon?
Alan
- Michael M.
- Quinta do Noval LBV
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Alan,
the two bottles are destined for the cellar. But I had the same idea as you obviously had. Curious: In the same year Martinez VP 1994 and SQVP Quinta da Eira Velha 1994- all the more as Martinez VP contains the grapes of Quinta La Eira Velha. I do have the information, that James Suckling rated the Martinez VP 1994 points 95 and the Quinta La Eira Velha 97 points . Mr. Mayson says in his book, that in certain years Quinta La Eira Velha could be outstandig. I also have a case of 12 of Martinez VP 1994. If I try the first one I will report. There are some threads from StevieCage and others on winespectator forum. For instance you' ll have a look here http://forums.winespectator.com/eve/for ... #192105263
Had this evening Niepoort Senior Tawny- yummy. Goto sleep lucky.
the two bottles are destined for the cellar. But I had the same idea as you obviously had. Curious: In the same year Martinez VP 1994 and SQVP Quinta da Eira Velha 1994- all the more as Martinez VP contains the grapes of Quinta La Eira Velha. I do have the information, that James Suckling rated the Martinez VP 1994 points 95 and the Quinta La Eira Velha 97 points . Mr. Mayson says in his book, that in certain years Quinta La Eira Velha could be outstandig. I also have a case of 12 of Martinez VP 1994. If I try the first one I will report. There are some threads from StevieCage and others on winespectator forum. For instance you' ll have a look here http://forums.winespectator.com/eve/for ... #192105263
Had this evening Niepoort Senior Tawny- yummy. Goto sleep lucky.
Shut Up 'N Drink Yer Port
- uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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- Joined: 23:43 Wed 20 Jun 2007
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I've got a case of Eira Velha '94 - well reviewed by Mayson - but have yet to open a bottle.
My steadily expanding database of known vintage ports - currently standing 1438 entries - has a bit of a question mark over Martinez and Eira Velha.
My issue is whether Martinez has sometimes been producing a blend AND an Eira Velha SQ in the same year - I have references to both in the years 2000, 1994, 1978 & 1975, but it's possible that they are one and the same.
- Can anyone enlighten me?
Tom
My steadily expanding database of known vintage ports - currently standing 1438 entries - has a bit of a question mark over Martinez and Eira Velha.
My issue is whether Martinez has sometimes been producing a blend AND an Eira Velha SQ in the same year - I have references to both in the years 2000, 1994, 1978 & 1975, but it's possible that they are one and the same.
- Can anyone enlighten me?
Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
- Frederick Blais
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It is very unsual. Well only a few companies are doing it. Fonseca is releasing Qta da Panascal, Niepoort is releasing Secudum and Ramos Pinto Qta da Ervamoira. The most consistent of doing so over the years has been Fonseca. Close of doing so is Dow's that release 2 SQVP when not releasing classic VP.