VP for early consumption

Anything to do with Port.
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DRT
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VP for early consumption

Post by DRT » 00:14 Fri 13 Jul 2007

Uncle Tom wrote:And how does one make a VP for early consumption?

- dare I suggest some light filtration...??

Tom
Conky wrote: That would make for an interesting trial (If it hasn't already been done). Even if it was proved to work, and I have my doubts, I bet the majority of us would then become 'Unfiltered Whatsoever' Snobs! :D

Alan
This deserves it's own thread.

I have no idea but would love to read others theories

Derek
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Post by Conky » 00:18 Fri 13 Jul 2007

Shall I chip in again, and say I think its a load of Tosh! I suspect it cant be done without changing the character, and therefore, if there is a new method, it becomes a sub-species of Vintage Port.

Alan

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Post by DRT » 00:32 Fri 13 Jul 2007

I hear what you say, Alan, but there are an increasing number of these VP's coming onto the market and it would be good to know what the production method is. They must be doing something different and I would love to know what it is.

On the subject of them being a sub-species - yes, they are, and that is reflected in the price. I bought a case of 12 Sandeman Vau 1997 3 years ago for £110 - £9 a bottle for VP produced by a [near] top tier house :?

Incidentally, I have no Sandeman Vau left :roll:

Derek
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Post by Conky » 00:40 Fri 13 Jul 2007

I may be slow on the uptake, but are you saying there IS a new Vintage Port, which is made differently, and can be drunk young???

I thought the Producers just hinted at it, to make those that want to drink it young, feel comfortable. If there actually is stuff, like the Sandamans you refer to, how is it marketed and labelled, and I'll explore this new phenomenum.

Alan

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Post by DRT » 00:56 Fri 13 Jul 2007

Conky wrote:I'll explore this new phenomenum.

Alan
Phenomenum is explored further here

Yes, Alan, this is a "new" style. Producers such as Sandeman, Noval, Niepoort and Portal are marketing VP's that are said to be early maturing when compared with their big brothers. They may just be worse, or they may be different. I can't imagine any of these houses wanting to intentionally make an inferior wine so my guess is that Tom is getting close to the truth.

The wines I am refering to are:
  • Noval Silval
  • Niepoort Secundum
  • Sandeman Vau
  • Portal+
Derek
Last edited by DRT on 01:05 Fri 13 Jul 2007, edited 1 time in total.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
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Post by Conky » 01:03 Fri 13 Jul 2007

So what are they called? They must have a slightly different name. If they haven't, could I suggest...wait for it,,, Phenomenum Port?
Catchy, hey!

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Post by DRT » 01:06 Fri 13 Jul 2007

My edit of the above post got caught in the cross-fire :roll:

Derek
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Post by Conky » 01:32 Fri 13 Jul 2007

Here is the Official reasoning.

There are a couple of houses that produce young-drinking alternatives without overtly referring to them as contemporary." The main distinction between the two wines, he explains, is the significant use of touriga franca in Vau, as well as the selection of wines with softer, rounder tannins, which support the fruit-forward style. "I believe Vau Vintage is accomplishing its objectives…we are seeing an acceptance of the concept of 'classic' and 'contemporary' Vintage Ports, and they are actually being referred to as such in the press," Sandeman continues.

This comes from a lenghty, but great read

Compliments of The Winew News

Alan

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Post by DRT » 01:49 Fri 13 Jul 2007

Alan,

This looks like a fantastic read which I will do at a more convenient* time

Derek

*Convenient = when less tired and emotional and able to focus with both eyes simultaneously
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Post by AHB » 08:16 Fri 13 Jul 2007

There has been some discussion on the same topic on FTLOP recently in this thread here.

Essentially, Roy is suggesting that as well as the option of filtration, the winemaker also has the option of varying the amount of time the wine spends in contact with the grape skins and grape mass to leach the tannins out. If you want to make a fruity port that still has some structure but not the tannic wallop required for very long term aging, then you crush quickly and ferment immediately without allowing the must to mix with the juice for very long.

On the other hand, if you want to make a tannic brute that will require 40 years to mellow into something enjoyable then you leave the juice and must in contact for a long time under refrigeration so that the fermentation doesn't start until you have completed the extraction to the level that you require.

Incidentally, does anyone know where the fortification process takes place? Is the aguadente poured into the lagar with the fermenting must or is the fermenting must emptied out of the lagar into barrels and fortified in the barrel? Is the brandy poured into the juice or the juice poured into the brandy?

Or is this getting a little too geeky?

Alex
Top Ports in 2018 (so far): Niepoort VV (1960's Bottling), Quinta do Noval Nacional 1994 and San Leonardo Very Old White (Bottled 2018)
2017 Ports of the year: Fonseca 1927 and Quinta do Noval 1927

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Post by AHB » 09:03 Fri 13 Jul 2007

Conky wrote:This comes from a lenghty, but great read

Compliments of The Wine News

Alan
Alan,

Thanks for posting the link. That was an extremely interesting read with quite a lot of new views until the tasting notes halfway down.

Alex
Top Ports in 2018 (so far): Niepoort VV (1960's Bottling), Quinta do Noval Nacional 1994 and San Leonardo Very Old White (Bottled 2018)
2017 Ports of the year: Fonseca 1927 and Quinta do Noval 1927

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Post by Andy Velebil » 17:22 Fri 13 Jul 2007

Alex,

I'm stretching my brain this early AM, but IIRC when the lagar gets to the desired baume, the juice is run off into a tank then the brandy is added in the correct amount.

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Post by StevieCage » 19:15 Fri 20 Jul 2007

I do not see it as a lesser type of VP - IMHO, many "Portuguese" houses have always produced VPs that mature more rapidly as their "British" cousins do. No idea as to how to produce this, however - perhaps using riper grapes and not treading them as much, in order to reduce the amount of tannins?

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Post by uncle tom » 11:05 Thu 26 Jul 2007

The only vintages I can find for Sandeman Vau are '96,'97,'99 & '00 - but nothing since.

Are Sandeman releasing these late - or has the concept flopped?

Tom
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