Identification of BOB's

[DRT]

Many supermarkets and wine merchants sell VP under their own label (known for some reason as BOB's).

Some of these identify the particular shipper who produced the wine whilst others simply reference one of the large conglomorates such as the Symington Family or the Taylor Fladgate Partnership.

In non vintage years, like 1995, I wonder whether or not the BOB's are produced from Single Quinta's or from blends that are similar to classic VP. There is often no way of telling from the label but I wonder, if these are SQVP's, would the rules dictate that this must be revealed on the label?

Can I have the award for the geekiest question of the month?

Derek

[RonnieRoots]

I may be wrong, but as far as I know the rules are: you are only allowed to call it Quinta da/do/de ..... if the grapes are sourced from te quinta, but there is no law stopping you from giving the port another name without quinta in it. So as an example: Quinta do Crasto is allowed to call their VP simply 'Crasto' , but that can still mean that all the grapes come from the quinta. If the label reads 'Quinta do Crasto' you are sure that all grapes come from the quinta.

[uncle tom]

known for some reason as BOB's

BOB = Buyer's Own Brand

Usually the original shipper's name is included deep in the small print, but I notice that Tesco 'own brand' vintage port (from 1994) is now merely credited to the Symingtons.

You would have thought that with eight - going on ten - names under their belt (if you include Cockburn & Martinez) the Sym's would not feel the need to create another.

Until recently, the Tesco own brand VP was credited to Quarles Harris.

I wonder what their reasoning is?

Tom

[DRT]

Until recently, the Tesco own brand VP was credited to Quarles Harris.

I wonder what their reasoning is?

Tom

I suppose it might be a decision made by the Symington's rather than Tesco. Supermarket BOB's would, I imagine, always be viewed generally as sub-standard offerings. If you were the producer would you want to associate that perception with one of your brands?

As an example, BBR's bottling of Smith Woodhouse 94 adds cudos to BBR in terms of their choice of supplier but does not detract anything from the shippers own label. However, Qualres Harris supplying Tesco with their 1994 BOB VP would, I think, have a detrimental effect on the perception of the producers own bottling.

Derek

[Conky]

So the Umberella Company takes the hit for the individual brands safety?

That logic only holds true if they know its inferior and 'will' attract criticism. Your probably right though.

Alan

[DRT]

Alan,

I don't think this is anything to do with the quality of the wine. It's the prerception of the quality of the brand on the label.

BBR have a great reputation for port [and wine], so the shipper and BBR both benefit from the association. Tesco is a supermarket that sells it's own baked beans. Tesco benefits from the Symington name on its "Finest" lebel but the Symingtons only benefit from the increased volume of juice going out the door.

Derek

[uncle tom]

Quarles Harris has been a flag of conveniance for the Sym's for some time - it does not appear to have a consistant house style, and has been unashamedly on the bottom rung of their range of blends.

This makes it an ideal house to supply the likes of Tesco.

Now, if the Sym's wanted to raise QH's status above the Tesco threshold and have a cheap and cheerful 'entry level' brew that just about qualifies as a VP - but nothing more - then there might be a logic to launching a new name that traded in competition with Cruz...

..but why attach your famous ancestral family name to such a wine?

My best hunch is that they planned to launch a decent wine under the Symington banner - possibly for the US market - possibly for 10yr release - but after bottling large quantities found the buyers uninterested.

Now at 13yrs they are offloading stock onto Tesco, and will return to using QH stock once that's exhausted.

Maybe we should try a bottle or two..?

Tom

[Alex Bridgeman]

I heard a possible alternative explanation for the "new" Symingtons name being used for the supply of port to BOB from Mario Ferreira yesterday.

As he explained it to me, the "One third" rule is still rigidly enforced on port producers in the Douro. This means that for every litre of port they sell, they must have two litres still in stock.

However, relatively recently the IVDP introduced a new classification of "port producer" who is someone that does not make their own wine but simply buys wine from other producers and makes their own blends. These producers are exempt from the "one third" rule and therefore can achieve much better capital efficiencies since they do not have to hold their own stocks.

Could it be that the BOB suppliers are taking advantage of this new classification and are buying wines in, blending them, bottling them and selling them on as a means of achieving a better business model?

I wasn't able confirm that the Symington BOB supplying company is one of these new style of companies, but it would make sense that it was since the same name appears on many differently branded bottles. By doing this they can preserve the reputation of their top brands, can keep their name and branding known as a large and influential supplier to bulk customers and can still control the quality of what is sold through the BOB network by managing the quality of the ports that are bought in and blended. Makes sense to me.

Now can I have an award for the geekiest answer of the month?

Alex

[DRT]

Yes, the accountants answer of the month goes to AL-B

[uncle tom]

Alex's answer certainly shows the accountant in him to perfection

I thought that the stock control for vintage port was very strict - that when declaring a vintage, the quantity made and the amount sold each year was carefully recorded by the IVDP, and that re-badging was strictly off-limits..

..but maybe I'm wrong..!

I know the one third rule is an accoutant's headache for the cheap rubies - and was introduced to stop too much wine being shipped too young - but for the top end of the market it seems to be of no consequence - indeed the more special category wine you produce, the quicker you can offload the rubies...!

Tom

[bman]

Nevermind - I thought this thread was about me....

[Conky]

This is Tesco's Tawny port. 6 Bottles for £4.55 each. I suppose it'll be tonsil varnish, but that is remarkably cheap! Wonder who's it really is? If I'm passing, I'll take a bullet for the team, and report back. If anyone wants to beat me to it, feel free.

Alan

[RonnieRoots]

Nevermind - I thought this thread was about me....

You're definitely easier to identify than a bottle of Tesco's port!

[uncle tom]

The Tesco tawny is likely to be an unaged blend of ruby and white port.

- Probably best kept in the fridge prior to serving.

Tom