Pointless Statistics

Anything to do with Port.
PhilW
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by PhilW » 20:03 Thu 01 Jan 2015

Since I've enjoyed and been intrigued by other's pointless statistics, I thought I should take a turn and add some of my own:
At the turn of the year 2014/15 my cellar comprises 99% port, 1% other wine. This breaks down as follows:
  • 90% Vintage port (VP+SQVP)
  • 4% LBV
  • 3% Tawny/Colheita
  • 2% Crusted
  • 1% non-port wine
Of the vintage port, the highest represented houses are Warre (26%), Graham (16%), Fonseca (13%) and Croft (8%).
Last edited by PhilW on 12:12 Fri 02 Jan 2015, edited 1 time in total.

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AW77
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by AW77 » 00:42 Fri 02 Jan 2015

LGTrotter wrote:
AHB wrote:Burgundy **shudder**. No. There is no Burgundy in my cellar. When a bottle occasionally turns up through gift or mixed lot purchase, it is used in cooking.
Cooking? Arrrggghhhhh.....
Perhaps you two could solve this issue by swapping bottles? :)
The Eleventh Commandment: Thou shalt know thy Port

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DRT
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by DRT » 02:57 Fri 02 Jan 2015

AW77 wrote:
LGTrotter wrote:
AHB wrote:Burgundy **shudder**. No. There is no Burgundy in my cellar. When a bottle occasionally turns up through gift or mixed lot purchase, it is used in cooking.
Cooking? Arrrggghhhhh.....
Perhaps you two could solve this issue by swapping bottles? :)
I know the best way to enjoy Burgundy...

1. Cut 1kg of well-aged shoulder steak into two-inch cubes

2. Peel six shallots

3. Crush three cloves of garlic

4. Put 1, 2 and 3 in a large casserole dish and pour in the bottle of Burgundy.

5. Place the dish in the fridge for 24 hours

6. Add beef stock, chopped carrots and mushrooms

7. Place in the oven for four hours or more

8. Add roast potatoes

9. Enjoy the perfect plate of Beef Burgundy with a glass of Bordeaux
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by LGTrotter » 13:33 Fri 02 Jan 2015

Are there no kind words for burgundy? Too subtle for the likes of you ruffians I s'pose *wipes away tear with lace cuff*.

And I forgot to mention the two bottles of Riesling. But I doubt they will be hanging around for long.
PhilW wrote:1% non-port wine
Blimey, and I thought Alex had a port heavy cellar. I think you should drink both of them this afternoon and stop shilly-shallying around with these new and dangerous ideas.

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AW77
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by AW77 » 14:06 Fri 02 Jan 2015

LGTrotter wrote:Are there no kind words for burgundy? Too subtle for the likes of you ruffians I s'pose *wipes away tear with lace cuff*.
I guess it takes a gentle soul to appreciate Burgundy. So this is a quality the rest of us here lack. I hope this gives you some solace.
LGTrotter wrote: And I forgot to mention the two bottles of Riesling. But I doubt they will be hanging around for long.
I hope they will be tasted soon. I still hope for a Damascene moment. :) But I fear that for someone who likes Chablis Riesling will be too acidic. (Vice versa, Chablis is too dull for me as there is no acidity. I guess that what tannins are for red wine in this Burgundy debate, acidity is for white wine.)
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djewesbury
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by djewesbury » 15:22 Fri 02 Jan 2015

AW77 wrote:I guess that what tannins are for red wine in this Burgundy debate, acidity is for white wine.
A very interesting observation. I like it.
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by djewesbury » 16:10 Fri 02 Jan 2015

Today I took charge of a T35 that is the sister of this one drunk at the Bell on the 18th of December 2014 (and of one drunk with Derek and Justin in November). At 80 years old, and around £65, this is now easily my best value-per-year bottle at less than 82p for each year since vintage. Does anyone else know offhand of similarly good value bottles, using this same method of calculation?
Daniel J.
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djewesbury
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by djewesbury » 16:11 Fri 02 Jan 2015

I would be interested to know AHB's wines of 2014. Are these already posted somewhere?
Daniel J.
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by DRT » 16:13 Fri 02 Jan 2015

djewesbury wrote:I would be interested to know AHB's wines of 2014. Are these already posted somewhere?
In his signature.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

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djewesbury
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by djewesbury » 16:14 Fri 02 Jan 2015

Oh yeah. Not visible on TapaUseless.
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by djewesbury » 16:15 Fri 02 Jan 2015

Viewing them on my laptop now I am surprised. I was with him when he drank some quite stellar things; I didn't expect two 2011s and a 94 to be the AHB top three.
Daniel J.
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by AHB » 15:11 Sun 04 Jan 2015

djewesbury wrote:Viewing them on my laptop now I am surprised. I was with him when he drank some quite stellar things; I didn't expect two 2011s and a 94 to be the AHB top three.
Let me finish typing up my 2014 notes and then I can post everything and update my top wines of the year.

Incidentally, port can only be used to make a good Bolognese sauce if it is Fonseca 1966.
Top Port in 2017 (so far): Taylor 2010 LBV
2016 Port of the year: Cockburn 1908

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djewesbury
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Pointless Statistics

Post by djewesbury » 15:15 Sun 04 Jan 2015

AHB wrote:
djewesbury wrote:Viewing them on my laptop now I am surprised. I was with him when he drank some quite stellar things; I didn't expect two 2011s and a 94 to be the AHB top three.
Let me finish typing up my 2014 notes and then I can post everything and update my top wines of the year.
Noted. (Or should that be 'Tasting Noted'?)
AHB wrote: Incidentally, port can only be used to make a good Bolognese sauce if it is Fonseca 1966.
Whereas any old Romanée-Conti will do for a Boeuf Bourgignon.
Daniel J.
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PopulusTremula
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by PopulusTremula » 15:54 Thu 08 Jan 2015

Have done a quick and dirty rundown of the wines i keep in storage at Vinotheque and the numbers came up as follows, all based on 75cl bottle equivalents:

(rounding errors are mine)
Countries
Austria 1.10%
France 25.33%
Germany 25.63%
Italy 8.83% (of which 14% is from Tuscany, rest is from Piemonte)
Portugal 39.11% (of which 90% is VP, 10% is SQVP)

France Regions
Alsace 4.36%
Bordeaux 21.19% (split approx. 50/50 between dry red and Sauternes)
Burgundy 1.98%
Chablis 4.36%
Champagne 9.11%
Languedoc-Roussillon 9.50%
Loire 3.96%
Provence 16.24% (not all are technically from Provence but close enough)
Rhone 29.70% (of which 16% are whites and 84% reds)

Germany - Regions (the only reds are from Ahr, rest are white)
Ahr 2.27%
Mosel 43.10%
Nahe 2.27%
Rheinhessen 50.09%

Germany – Prädikat (more or less)
GG 42.72%
Qba 2.27%
Kabinett 4.16%
Spätlese 20.42% (incl. GK)
Auslese 23.82% (incl. GK and LGK)
Beerenauslese 1.51%
Trockenbeerenauslese 2.84%

Port shippers
Dow 7.71%
Fonseca 16.2%
Graham 16.97%
Niepoort 0.77%
Offley Boa Vista 5.91%
Quevedo 6.17%
Quinta do Noval 11.83%
Ramos Pinto 3.08%
Sandeman 3.08%
Taylor 16.45%
Warre 10.28%
Smith Woodhouse 1.54%

Port Vintages
1977 1.54%
1980 1.29%
1985 12.08%
1994 31.88%
1995 5.91%
1997 4.11%
2000 14.14%
2003 3.08%
2007 4.63%
2009 6.94%
2011 12.85%
2012 1.54%

Apart from odd lots of older VP and other dry wines kept at home, the above is a fairly good breakdown of the cellar. Now the focus will turn to VP from 1970, 1980 and 1985, bypassing 1977s (apart from those already held).

Also, at home i keep three bottles of 2004 Penfolds Bin 707, which i just can't seem to like despite showing them goodwill and being of an open mind. Just too much of fruit and everything else, to my palate at least. They have been kept well since purchase, in a dark crawlspace under the stairs. If anyone is interested i would happily swap them for some VP of equivalent value based on the price i paid (around £45 GBP).
Last edited by PopulusTremula on 22:11 Thu 08 Jan 2015, edited 1 time in total.

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jdaw1
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by jdaw1 » 15:40 Fri 09 Jan 2015

Seven posts on German wine moved by jdaw1 to a new thread imaginatively entitled German wine.

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AHB
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by AHB » 16:48 Fri 09 Jan 2015

My final burst of pointless statistics before I vanish into the hell that is my tax return. These are based on my tasting notes, now written up for 2014.

In 2014 I wrote 479 port tasting notes. 7 of these were of ports from the 19th century, the oldest of which was from 1855, and a further 22 were from vintages prior to 1946. 10 of the ports were from the 2012 vintage and 4 from the 2014 vintage. There were 18 non-vintage ports and 2 old bottles (probably from the 19th century) whose vintages could not be determined. At least 17 notes were taken each month and in one month I took 120 separate tasting notes.

The best I tasted (99/100) were the Scion and the Nacional 2011. The worst I tasted and scored was a Dow 1970 (73/100) and a Warre 1958 (77/100).

Most frequently tasted producers were: (48) Graham including Malvedos, (48) Taylor including Vargellas and (41) Fonseca including Fonseca Guimaraens.
Most frequently tasted vintages were: 1994 (37), 1970 (27), 1985 (25) and 1963 (25).
The most often tasted ports were: (10) Taylor 1985 - thanks to the Taylor 1985 case study; (6) Graham 1980; (5) Graham 1970, Graham 1977.

Score distribution was:
73 - 1
77 - 1
78 - 2
80 - 3
81 - 5
82 - 12
83 - 13
84 - 16
85 - 38
86 - 32
87 - 31
88 - 45
89 - 42
90 - 40
91 - 39
92 - 37
93 - 33
94 - 29
95 - 18
96 - 6
97 - 5
98 - 2
99 - 2
Not rated (because it was unrepresentative or not appropriate or because I forgot to rate it) - 27

I now have a database of over 3,200 port tasting notes that I have taken. 25% of these come from the four vintages of 1970 (8%), 1963 (7%), 1985 (5%) and 1977 (5%). 24% come from the three shippers of Graham (9%), Taylor (8%) and Warre (7%).

The oldest tasting note I have in my records I wrote in 1989 and is of a bottle of Burmester 1937 colheita, bottled in 1987.
Top Port in 2017 (so far): Taylor 2010 LBV
2016 Port of the year: Cockburn 1908

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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by LGTrotter » 20:45 Sat 10 Jan 2015

jdaw1 wrote:Seven posts on German wine moved by jdaw1 to a new thread imaginatively entitled German wine.
And one post not related to German wine. Oh well it wasn't important. Once again I am at the mercy of the fickle finger of fate. Or Julian as he is otherwise known.
AHB wrote:The oldest tasting note I have in my records I wrote in 1989 and is of a bottle of Burmester 1937 colheita, bottled in 1987.
I am not sure what my first tasting note for anything might be. I did have a notebook where I wrote a few words related to the wines listed, but I think my first proper note was in 2002 and I think it was for a Graham 1985. No wonder I got hooked on port.

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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by AHB » 11:44 Wed 30 Dec 2015

djewesbury wrote:Today I took charge of a T35 that is the sister of this one drunk at the Bell on the 18th of December 2014 (and of one drunk with Derek and Justin in November). At 80 years old, and around £65, this is now easily my best value-per-year bottle at less than 82p for each year since vintage. Does anyone else know offhand of similarly good value bottles, using this same method of calculation?
I was reviewing this thread prior to posting some pointless statistics for 2015 and stumbled across this unanswered question from Daniel. It triggered an extra statistic being added to my cellar listing spreadsheet and I can now proudly say that the best value for money using the DJ method of calculation would be two bottles of Taylor 1955 which I purchased at auction for the sum of £11 each in March 2010 - this worked out at 20p per year at the time.

After that it would be 4 bottles of Fonseca 1948 which I bought from the Watlington Working Men's Club in 2009, when they were selling off everything prior to the building being demolished and replaced by 372 luxury one and two bedroom apartments designed for spacious living for the ambitious modern dweller (limited parking available). Watlington's loss was my gain as I acquired the 4 bottles of F48 and a case and a half of Warre 1958 for a total of £400 (inc. VAT) - 30p per year for the F48. I couldn't believe my luck when I walked in mid-afternoon and saw these were still for sale despite the mad rush in the morning - apparently the morning buyers were just after the whisky and beer and some of the bar equipment and furniture.
Top Port in 2017 (so far): Taylor 2010 LBV
2016 Port of the year: Cockburn 1908

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DRT
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by DRT » 11:58 Wed 30 Dec 2015

About ten years ago I purchased two bottles of White's of Leicester 1873 and a Magnum of Fonseca 1920 for the grand sum of £50. I will leave itto Daniel to "do the math".
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by AHB » 12:07 Wed 30 Dec 2015

I now grandly unveil my pointless statistics for 2015. My overwhelming impression is how little has changed during the year in terms of the balance of my cellar and the port within it. Despite having failed (again) in my ambition to reduce the number of bottles in my cellar, not much is different at the macro level.

I hope you enjoy reading what follows:

Cellar Statistics
Today, 91% (2014: 91%) of what I own is port, 3% (3%) is Bordeaux, 2% (2%) Champagne, 1% (1%) Australian, 1% (1%) Spanish and 1% (1%) South African. 2% is “other” with no single region accounting for more than 0.5%. I own no Burgundy or German wines.

62% (2014: 61%) of the port will be aged 21 or more in 2016 and therefore ready for drinking according to the traditional British rule of thumb. 23% of my port comes from the 21st century with the largest holdings being of the 2011 and 1963 vintages (both 8%, 2014: 9% and 8% respectively).

68% (2014: 69%) of my port is vintage port, 25% (25%) is single quinta vintage port, 5% (5%) is LBV and 2% (1%) is crusted.

15% (2014: 15%) of the containers are from Quinta do Vesuvio, 8% (8%) from each of Warre, Graham and Fonseca. 88% (88%) of the corks I own are in 75cl bottles, 8% (8%) are in half bottles, 4% (4%) are in magnums or larger format.

There are 475 (2014: 457) unique ports in the cellar.

4% of the port has been in my cellar for less than 1 year
2% of the port has been in my cellar for 1-2 (as in more than 1 but less than 2) years
9% has been in the cellar for 2-3 years
17% has been in the cellar for 3-5 years
50% has been in the cellar for 5-8 years
10% has been in the cellar for 8-11 years
4% has been in the cellar for 11-15 years
3% has been in the cellar for more than 15 years


Tasting Note Statistics
In 2015 I wrote 426 Port tasting notes, the smallest number in any of the last 5 years.

Included in these 426 notes were 13 10YO tawnies (including 1 white 10YO tawny), 8 20YO tawnies, 4 30YO tawnies (including 1 white 30YO tawny), 4 40YO tawnies, 19 colheitas, 4 crusted ports, 2 garrafeira ports, 30 LBV ports, 1 Massandra “port”, 1 Australian “tawny”, 9 ruby or ruby reserve, 2 fortified wines from South Africa, 48 single quinta vintage ports, 9 tawny ports, 7 white ports, 5 white colheitas and 260 vintage ports. Alarmingly that means nearly 40% of what passed my lips was not vintage port – a correction is clearly required for 2016.

1 of the tasting notes was written from a tasting of a 20cl miniature, 17 from half bottles, 4 from 50cl imps, 7 from magnums, 1 from tappit hen (2.1l), 2 from double magnum, 1 from jeroboam (4.5l) and 1 from imperial (6.0l). The 392 bottles tasted means that 92% of the containers I sipped from were 75cl in size.

5 tasting notes were of wines more than 100 years old, 4 of those from the 19th century. The oldest was from 1815; there were also wines from 1847, 1863 and 1884.

The average age of the port tasted was 35 years (and 4 months).

139 (33%) notes were of wines I had not tried before this year.

The wine I tasted most often was Fonseca 1985 (11 times), Dow 1970 (6 times) and Graham 1977 (6 times).

Looking back over the years I have made notes on the Fonseca 1985 and the Warre 1970 32 times, the Graham 1970 31 times and the Dow 1970 30 times.

My most tasted vintages are 1970 (7.7%), 1963 (6.3%) and 1977 (5.1%).

The shippers I have tasted most often are Graham (9%), Taylor (8%) and Warre (7%).

The wines tasted were scored most of the time, with the scoring profile being:
64 points – 1 (0.2%)
74 points – 1 (0.2%)
75 points – 1 (0.2%)
78 points – 1 (0.2%)
80 points – 2 (0.4%)
81 points – 6 (1.5%)
82 points – 3 (0.7%)
83 points – 12 (3.0%)
84 points – 16 (4.0%)
85 points – 25 (6.2%)
86 points – 29 (7.2%)
87 points – 23 (5.7%)
88 points – 40 (9.9%)
89 points – 55 (13.6%)
90 points – 30 (7.4%)
91 points – 35 (8.7%)
92 points – 36 (8.9%)
93 points – 27 (6.7%)
94 points – 35 (8.7%)
95 points – 13 (3.2%)
96 points – 8 (2.0%)
97 points – 1 (0.2%)
98 points – 4 (1.0%)
Top Port in 2017 (so far): Taylor 2010 LBV
2016 Port of the year: Cockburn 1908

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AHB
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by AHB » 12:11 Wed 30 Dec 2015

DRT wrote:About ten years ago I purchased two bottles of White's of Leicester 1873 and a Magnum of Fonseca 1920 for the grand sum of £50. I will leave itto Daniel to "do the math".
I reckon this works out as follows:

(2005-1873)x2=264
(2005-1920)x2=170

Total bottle-years purchased = 434
£50/434 = 11.5p per bottle-year. Best bargain so far.
Top Port in 2017 (so far): Taylor 2010 LBV
2016 Port of the year: Cockburn 1908

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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by LGTrotter » 16:17 Thu 31 Dec 2015

AHB wrote:Alarmingly that means nearly 40% of what passed my lips was not vintage port – a correction is clearly required for 2016.
But looking on the bright side Glenn would be proud of you.

I am a little surprised at the length of time you have had your bottles. Not many seem to survive that long, they must all be quaking in their boots. But this is scarcely surprising given the 426 tasting notes. It probably says more about how few bottles I drink.

Am I right in thinking that English wine used to make it into your rankings? Was this merely a flash in the pan? I would surmise that Elizabeth has decided that Champagne makes better wine than the Sussex Downs (my opinion also, for now).

Thanks Alex, I shall continue to pour* over them.

*I think this is wrong, but surely it isn't 'paw' and 'pore' doesn't look right either. No doubt correction will be administered.

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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by DRT » 16:49 Thu 31 Dec 2015

Interesting statistics as always Mr B.

You have clearly had a good year, with 46.8% of the wines you tasted scoring 90 points or above :D
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by jdaw1 » 16:51 Thu 31 Dec 2015

LGTrotter wrote:No doubt correction will be administered.
This is not that type of website. (And pore.)

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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by AHB » 22:15 Fri 01 Jan 2016

LGTrotter wrote:I am a little surprised at the length of time you have had your bottles. Not many seem to survive that long, they must all be quaking in their boots. But this is scarcely surprising given the 426 tasting notes. It probably says more about how few bottles I drink.
I suspect that it is more a reflection of the fact that it was a little over 5 years ago that Tom made me think about bringing some structure to my cellar and I substantially increased the number of bottles that I owned. I plan and expect to draw 50-100 bottles per year from the cellar and top it up with a few cases per year of both new release and occasional cases of mature wines that can supplement what I already own (like when ex-cellars cases of magnums of Fonseca 1970 are offered at auction).
LGTrotter wrote:Am I right in thinking that English wine used to make it into your rankings? Was this merely a flash in the pan? I would surmise that Elizabeth has decided that Champagne makes better wine than the Sussex Downs (my opinion also, for now).
Not a flash in the pan, just a reflection that we haven't bought any for a while so stocks are low. I am sure that a couple of cases will be purchased soon - but it will be Camel Valley Bacchus rather than something from the Sussex Downs (although John Worontshak's wines are pretty good).
Top Port in 2017 (so far): Taylor 2010 LBV
2016 Port of the year: Cockburn 1908

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