The 1991 and 1992 vintages are now what I would consider to be entering the realms of mature VP - ie at least 15 years old. This is a totally personal and subjective measure but it's my measure so stay with me on this.
I have recently had Graham's, Gould Campbell and Morgan 1991 and Niepoort 1992. All show signs that they will go on improving although all are drinking well now so could be kept to be allowed to show their best.
My question is, which shippers wines from these vintages are in the zone now and will not improve further. These are the ones I think we should all be drinking now
My expiereince is too limited to contribute.
But if this thread is expanded, have you tried the Morgans 91, with this in mind? Is your opinion its for drinking in the next few years, or could it hang on a bit.
For those who dont know, Tom aquired quite a bit of this, and we all now have a few bottles, as he sold bits on at cost.
My experiance of the 92's is very limited, and, so far, disappointing.
Of the 91's I've had, my consistant feeling is that these are still in the 'Kevin' phase.
Each to his own of course, but I'm not rushing to put them on my drinking list at the moment - I have a gut feeling that the 91's will really blossom in another ten to twenty years.
Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
In each vintage there will be a range of wines that have different ageing potentials. I often read things similar to Tom's post above which treats the entire vintage as a single entity and implies that all of them will age at around the same rate. However, when you look at mature vintages from the early 80's backwards this patently isn't how life works. By the time a vintage is generally accepted as mature there will be some wines that have started to show signs of decline. These are the ones I want to teaste out here so that they don't end up being kept too long and miss their chance to shine when at their peak.
To answer your question on Morgan's, Alan, I think it's a keeper but is very drinkable now. If I had patience and they hadn't cost me £8 each I would stick all of them away for another time. But I have no patience and they did cost £8 each so a few of them will die very soon. I have taken the precaution of sending a few away to boarding school to allow them to grow up
Having tasted it again tonight I will stand by my comments on Morgan's 91. This will keep for many years and probably improve but it is not a blockbuster wine. This one cost me £8. The retail price is around £12 + tax. Not worth waiting really, unless you have lots of them, which I do
I'd be amazed if its a 40year plus port, and its just old enough now. 16years. So as its so cheap, it looks like its one of those once a year bottles until it peaks.
Not sure how this contects to the thread, but there you go,
Interesting to see some big names in your list Ronnie, have you had these more than once recently or are you working on a hunch based on earlier experience and single bottle tastings?
I assume you're talking about Warre and Vesuvio as the big names? Warre is a multiple bottle experience (it just isn't as good as, let's say, the '94), but I only tasted the Vesuvio once, so that could have been a one off not so good bottle (although I always understood that the really good Vesuvio's only started from 1994 on).
Yes, those were the ones. The Warre's surprises me, although I have to confess I have not had it and I am only going on general reputation. Vesuvio I have had once, at the Quinta. I will post a TN for that and the others in the vertical but interesting to note in the context of this thread that my TN of the 92 ends with Beautiful for drinking now
I have around 2/3 of a case of the 1992 Quinta do Passadouro left and can second the "nice now" comments above. Not quite as cheap as the Krohns, but still a very nice price.
And of course how would you know that unless you had tasted it?
Jay P wrote:And of course how would you know that unless you had tasted it?
I know because you tasted it, so we killed only half of the bottles we would have if we had both been drinking it too young - I knew we would find a use for Americans one day
OK - back on thread - I've never tasted a Passadouro or a Krohn's VP - can't say I've ever even seen one here. I'm sure we can get it but it's not something you see on the shelf and not something I would buy by the case.
I've been through my notes on '91 and '92 bottles (not many '92s, these are mostly in bond) and can comment based on the following wines:
Morgan '91 (twice in last 12 months)
Niepoort '91 (once in last 12 months)
Vargellas '91 (once in last 12 months)
Vesuvio '91 (twice in last 12 months)
Warre '91 (twice in last 18 months)
Vesuvio '92 (once in last 12 months)
I felt that the Vesuvio '92 needed another 10 years to improve while the '91 Vesuvio only rated another 5 years, in my notes. I noted the Warre '91 as being ready to drink in May 2006 but was much less impressed in March 2007, noting that it needed to be left at least a year before experimenting with another bottle.
The Vargellas I thought was another 10+ years wine, but the Niepoort disappointed me and I was not sure that it would improve further from where it is today.
And the Morgan '91 deserves to be everyone's house wine at the prices that it fetched at auction. I noted it as simple, easy-drinking and delivering all the right Vintage Port flavours and textures without doing anything exceptional. I'm not sure that this will be a significantly better wine in 10 years so I am happily drinking mine up.
So, in summary, I would rate the wines I have tasted as: Drink now / keep 10 years
Morgan '91
Warre '91
Niepoort '91
Keep 5-10 years
Vesuvio '91
Keep 10+ years
Vesuvio '92
Vargellas '91
but this is only my taste and impression of the wines based on 1 or 2 opportunities to taste them, so I will happily accept that others may and will have different thoughts.
Alex
Top Ports in 2023: Taylor 1896 Colheita, b. 2021. A perfect Port.
2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.
AHB wrote:Keep 10+ years
Vesuvio '92
Vargellas '91
Thanks Alex,
I have a single bottle of the Vargellas '91, which I had intended to hold for at least that decade. Glad to see this sentiment confirmed for me
I've had quite a few 91 but not as much 92. For me in general for the VP declared in both years, 91 is evolving so much quicker.
For my taste, as it is always a question of taste all the Symington's appart from Dow's are at their peak. Sure they will age further but I doubt they will get better, again for my taste. Surely they'll be different but I doubt they'll be better for the type of Port I consider mature to my palate. As said above, Croft is one that will gain much more complexity and is worth cellaring. Ramos Pinto is nice atm but I put it in same category as Graham's and Warre's. Kopke is starting going downhill, way too much alcoholic, so is Feist.
For the 92 I've had Taylor, Niepoort and Vesuvio only. Taylor is still a baby while Vesuvio does needs some time, it will evolve faster than Taylor. I would not touch both for another 10 years. For Niepoort, good now but will be better in 3-5 years on its plateau but it will never be a great Port.
Jay P wrote:And of course how would you know that unless you had tasted it?
I know because you tasted it, so we killed only half of the bottles we would have if we had both been drinking it too young - I knew we would find a use for Americans one day
Derek
Derek, you have inspired me to come up with a fantastic plan! You and the UK crew send me a few bottles of port which are "to young" every week. I volunteer to test them and report a note on each and every one...Thus we will have accomplished the maximum transmission of tasting notes with a minimum amount of premature drinking of bottles. Of course duplicates or higher for each bottle would be good so we can raise the n and get the best control of variability.
This is a lot of work for me I know, but I am willing to take this on in order to save the worlds supply of immature (or erroneously thought to be immature because nobody had tasted it) port
Its a great plan and everybody benefits. I just want you to know that I would not just do this for anybody.
I couldn't sleep at night thinking that I had forced you into making such a sacrifice. I think you should ask ADV for some of his and let us know how they are doing
Derek
"The first duty of Port is to be red" Ernest H. Cockburn
