Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

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Doggett
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Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by Doggett » 17:55 Thu 10 Dec 2020

Another premium release from TFP. A change in pace from every year since 2014 for the 50YO single harvest releases starting with the 1964. I wonder if this signifies a 2x yearly single harvest release to engage both the 50 and 60th celebrations or whether it is just a special bottling. I look forward to reading Axel’s tasting note, and finding out how much it is.

https://taylor.pt/us/port-wine/single-harvest-1961

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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by JacobH » 17:57 Thu 10 Dec 2020

Perhaps they don’t have any 1971 to sell?
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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by Glenn E. » 18:14 Thu 10 Dec 2020

JacobH wrote:
17:57 Thu 10 Dec 2020
Perhaps they don’t have any 1971 to sell?
Possibly that (I don't know the answer), possibly also that they didn't buy Krohn until 2013 so couldn't release the 1961 for its 50th anniversary. I won't be surprised if this is followed by 1962 and 1963 releases over the next 2 years.
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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by JacobH » 19:37 Thu 10 Dec 2020

Glenn E. wrote:
18:14 Thu 10 Dec 2020
Possibly that (I don't know the answer), possibly also that they didn't buy Krohn until 2013 so couldn't release the 1961 for its 50th anniversary. I won't be surprised if this is followed by 1962 and 1963 releases over the next 2 years.
That’s true. The other problems with doing 50-year-old bottlings over the next few years is that 1971 was a pretty bad year: I can see a Taylor LBV but that seems to be the only Vintage Port, and there are only a few colheitas (Niepoort, Noval & a Dalva white). It wouldn’t surprise me if they don’t have any or any of acceptable quality. The same goes for 1973 which I think was one of the worst years on record.
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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by Andy Velebil » 03:05 Fri 11 Dec 2020

JacobH wrote:
Glenn E. wrote:
18:14 Thu 10 Dec 2020
Possibly that (I don't know the answer), possibly also that they didn't buy Krohn until 2013 so couldn't release the 1961 for its 50th anniversary. I won't be surprised if this is followed by 1962 and 1963 releases over the next 2 years.
That’s true. The other problems with doing 50-year-old bottlings over the next few years is that 1971 was a pretty bad year: I can see a Taylor LBV but that seems to be the only Vintage Port, and there are only a few colheitas (Niepoort, Noval & a Dalva white). It wouldn’t surprise me if they don’t have any or any of acceptable quality. The same goes for 1973 which I think was one of the worst years on record.
To be factually correct. 1973 wasn’t a horrible year. It was part of the arguardente scandal and virtually all of it was poured down the drain (or street gutter to be more specific). Some did survive. I’ve had a few over the years. None great.

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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by JacobH » 13:20 Fri 11 Dec 2020

Andy Velebil wrote:
03:05 Fri 11 Dec 2020
To be factually correct. 1973 wasn’t a horrible year. It was part of the arguardente scandal and virtually all of it was poured down the drain (or street gutter to be more specific). Some did survive. I’ve had a few over the years. None great.
I hadn’t realised that that was the issue with 1973. Although I think “horrible” can mean more than the weather! ;-) Was it ’72 or ’74 when they did commercially release some Ports which had been fortified with an industrial alcohol?
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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by Glenn E. » 19:08 Fri 11 Dec 2020

JacobH wrote:
13:20 Fri 11 Dec 2020
Andy Velebil wrote:
03:05 Fri 11 Dec 2020
To be factually correct. 1973 wasn’t a horrible year. It was part of the arguardente scandal and virtually all of it was poured down the drain (or street gutter to be more specific). Some did survive. I’ve had a few over the years. None great.
I hadn’t realised that that was the issue with 1973. Although I think “horrible” can mean more than the weather! ;-) Was it ’72 or ’74 when they did commercially release some Ports which had been fortified with an industrial alcohol?
As I recall that was 1972. But that's also the safe assumption. The scandal in 1973 was a huge deal, and they literally poured the Port out into the street gutters, so I would be very surprised if anyone made the mistake of using industrial alcohol again in 1974.

I've tasted affected Ports from that era once or twice, and like Andy said they're not great. Note that there are also Ports from the era that seem to be fine - the infamous Casa Ste. Eufemia Special Reserve White that most of us have had is an undeclared 1973 Colheita, and it's quite good. That same wine is also used in the blend of the Quinta Ste. Eufemia 30 Year Old White Port.
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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by JacobH » 19:33 Fri 11 Dec 2020

Glenn E. wrote:
19:08 Fri 11 Dec 2020
As I recall that was 1972. But that's also the safe assumption. The scandal in 1973 was a huge deal, and they literally poured the Port out into the street gutters, so I would be very surprised if anyone made the mistake of using industrial alcohol again in 1974.

I've tasted affected Ports from that era once or twice, and like Andy said they're not great. Note that there are also Ports from the era that seem to be fine - the infamous Casa Ste. Eufemia Special Reserve White that most of us have had is an undeclared 1973 Colheita, and it's quite good. That same wine is also used in the blend of the Quinta Ste. Eufemia 30 Year Old White Port.
That’s a very fair point about 1974. When we did a Fonseca and Fonseca Guimaraens tasting Adrian Bridge expressly disclaimed that the 1972 Fonseca Guimaraens contained any industrial alcohol: I don’t know if the situation was as bad in 1972 as 1973 but perhaps some winemakers somehow avoided the altogether. I suppose it may have even been cheaper to buy non-government-monopoly arguardente if you were making some Port for domestic purposes (which is what I assume the intention of the 1973 White Colheita from Casa / Quinta Ste Eufemia must have been).

The Dow 1972 is notably good, though, and possibly the only major declaration from this period.
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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by Doggett » 20:20 Fri 11 Dec 2020

The 1972 declarations as far as I know them are:

Dow
Dow Bonfim (Danish market release)
Fonseca Guimaraens
Taylor’s Vargellas
Sandeman
Quinta de la Rosa
Offley Boa Vista
Rebello Valente

I would be interested in hearing about any others if they exist, as I patiently wait to try these ports together in 2022, hopefully with several members of this forum.

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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by Doggett » 20:24 Fri 11 Dec 2020

Ps. If anyone has or sees a Quinta de la Rosa 72 or Dow Bonfim 72, please let me know (or for that matter a Rebello Valente). The others are often seen but I have never seen those (the RV I have tasted as nac was kind enough to bring one to the vertical but you don’t often see it these days).

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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by Justin K » 23:39 Fri 11 Dec 2020

I’ve a bottle of Dow’s 1972.

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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by nac » 08:42 Sat 12 Dec 2020

Corney & Barrow has the 61 Taylor for £200 per bottle in bond, or six for £1150.

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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by nac » 08:51 Sat 12 Dec 2020

JacobH wrote:
17:57 Thu 10 Dec 2020
Perhaps they don’t have any 1971 to sell?
The 1970 was released in May this year (and my memory is that previous releases were at a similar time of year), so would suggest that we won’t know until mid 2021.

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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by Doggett » 10:30 Sat 12 Dec 2020

nac wrote:
08:42 Sat 12 Dec 2020
Corney & Barrow has the 61 Taylor for £200 per bottle in bond, or six for £1150.
That seems like a similar pricing structure to the 50YO releases, rather than much of an additional premium for the extra decade of age.

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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by nac » 17:59 Sat 12 Dec 2020

Doggett wrote:
10:30 Sat 12 Dec 2020
nac wrote:
08:42 Sat 12 Dec 2020
Corney & Barrow has the 61 Taylor for £200 per bottle in bond, or six for £1150.
That seems like a similar pricing structure to the 50YO releases, rather than much of an additional premium for the extra decade of age.
Release price for the 1970 was £875/6ib.

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Re: RE: Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by JacobH » 13:54 Sun 13 Dec 2020

nac wrote:
JacobH wrote:
17:57 Thu 10 Dec 2020
Perhaps they don’t have any 1971 to sell?
The 1970 was released in May this year (and my memory is that previous releases were at a similar time of year), so would suggest that we won’t know until mid 2021.
I assumed that they were doing one 50-year-old each year to target the birthday / anniversary market so it's odd they miss out nearly half the year by releasing them then.
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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by Andy Velebil » 22:43 Mon 14 Dec 2020

Related to the scandal. IIRC from various producers, in 1972 producers still had some left over spirit from the previous year so not all production was affected. By 1973 virtually everyone ended up with the industrial spirit. Which is why there are 1972's but virtually no 1973's.

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Re: RE: Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by JacobH » 23:17 Mon 14 Dec 2020

Andy Velebil wrote:Related to the scandal. IIRC from various producers, in 1972 producers still had some left over spirit from the previous year so not all production was affected. By 1973 virtually everyone ended up with the industrial spirit. Which is why there are 1972's but virtually no 1973's.
Ah. That makes a lot of sense. Hence why, say, the 1972 would be ok or even some of the colheitas since if you knew you had only a limited stock of decent spirit you would use it with your best parcels of grapes.
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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by jdaw1 » 08:28 Tue 15 Dec 2020

Does anybody have a subscription, with access to its archive, to The Times? Was this much discussed in that newspaper (which back then was the newspaper of record)?

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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by nac » 08:48 Tue 15 Dec 2020

jdaw1 wrote:
08:28 Tue 15 Dec 2020
Does anybody have a subscription, with access to its archive, to The Times? Was this much discussed in that newspaper (which back then was the newspaper of record)?
I do. Will have a look.

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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by Penny Farthing » 17:53 Sat 09 Jan 2021

I Have a bottle of Taylors Qunita De Vargellas 1972 sealed bottle,
im not expert and fairly new to the collecting port game, drank vast amounts whilst in the forces, I have been told that there is a crusted 1973 port,
i am trying to collect a bottle of port from every year from my birth 1972 being the first one,

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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by Glenn E. » 07:02 Sun 10 Jan 2021

Most years should not cause you too much trouble, provided you are willing to pay the price. However there are a handful of years that will be difficult... luckily you've already succeeded with one of them. I assume you are looking for bottles that have the year on them, not just bottles that were produced that year.

1972, 1973, 1974, 1993, and 2002 were all problematic years for different reasons. As I recall there is only 1 known Port from 1993.

If you're willing to "cheat" just a little bit, there is the 1973 Port from Casa de Ste. Eufemia mentioned up-thread, but it does not have the date on the label because they never registered it properly. If that interests you, the Port you're looking for is the Casa de Ste. Eufemia Special Reserve White Port. There are several internet stores on the East coast of the USA selling it right now.
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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by JacobH » 13:59 Sun 10 Jan 2021

Penny Farthing wrote:
17:53 Sat 09 Jan 2021
im not expert and fairly new to the collecting port game, drank vast amounts whilst in the forces, I have been told that there is a crusted 1973 port,
I don’t know if this will make a difference to you, but for a Crusted Port the year on the bottle is the bottling date rather than the year in which the grapes were grown since it is inevitably a blend of different wines from different years.
Glenn E. wrote:
07:02 Sun 10 Jan 2021
1972, 1973, 1974, 1993, and 2002 were all problematic years for different reasons.
Whilst there wasn’t much 2002 Vintage Port, there were a few SQVPs like Vargellas and a stack of LBVs. Of course the filtered LBVs (e.g. Taylor or Graham) might be a bit tired by now but if you are looking to buy for collecting purposes rather than to drink that shouldn’t be problematic.
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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by nac » 12:47 Wed 13 Jan 2021

Just received another offer for the Taylor 61 from Bordeaux Index - £1200/6 or £200/bt IB. “Extremely limited quantities...” if interested.

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Re: Taylor’s [very old] Single Harvest 1961

Post by nac » 12:48 Wed 13 Jan 2021

Apparently 2,900 bottles being released.

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