2015 declarations

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uncle tom
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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by uncle tom » 08:50 Sat 29 Apr 2017

So with the Symingtons, TFP and Sogrape all declaring their SQs for 2015, it now looks certain that we are not looking at a split declaration, but a general declaration for 2016.

- I wonder whether the Symingtons will also declare a 2016 Cockburn?
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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by jdaw1 » 16:33 Sat 29 Apr 2017

The end of the line for the smaller Symington brands: not Smith Woodhouse; nor Gould Campbell; nor Quarles Harris; nor Martinez.

Please post a link for the Sogrape declarations.

Cockburn’s total seems to be 3500+110+33+33⅓ = 3676⅓ dozen.

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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by DRT » 13:17 Mon 01 May 2017

uncle tom wrote:
09:58 Mon 24 Apr 2017
After the 2015 vintage there was general contentment that it was 'good enough' to declare, but there was a lack of real excitement. It was also evident that the four year gap since the 2011 vintage meant that a declaration was needed, and the vintage was being banked as a declaration long before the 2016 vintage showed its hand.
uncle tom wrote:
08:50 Sat 29 Apr 2017
So with the Symingtons, TFP and Sogrape all declaring their SQs for 2015, it now looks certain that we are not looking at a split declaration, but a general declaration for 2016.
I suppose time will tell, but given the widespread problems with the 2016 harvest I think it is rather too early to be certain or even hopeful of a general declaration.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

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uncle tom
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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by uncle tom » 12:15 Tue 02 May 2017

I suppose time will tell, but given the widespread problems with the 2016 harvest I think it is rather too early to be certain or even hopeful of a general declaration.
My reasoning is that if the Syms and TFP were not confident that 2016 would make the grade, they would have declared '15. It does seem likely though, that a 2016 general declaration will have some well known smaller producers absent from the party - some of those who got their spraying regimes awry suffered grievously in 2016.

It is very bad news for a small producer to have to miss a general declaration, or be faced with offering a wine that is going to be severely outgunned by the big names. I do hope that the decision to pass on 2015 was entirely driven by quality, rather than marketing tactics..
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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by Andy Velebil » 15:14 Tue 02 May 2017

uncle tom wrote:
12:15 Tue 02 May 2017
I suppose time will tell, but given the widespread problems with the 2016 harvest I think it is rather too early to be certain or even hopeful of a general declaration.
My reasoning is that if the Syms and TFP were not confident that 2016 would make the grade, they would have declared '15. It does seem likely though, that a 2016 general declaration will have some well known smaller producers absent from the party - some of those who got their spraying regimes awry suffered grievously in 2016.

It is very bad news for a small producer to have to miss a general declaration, or be faced with offering a wine that is going to be severely outgunned by the big names. I do hope that the decision to pass on 2015 was entirely driven by quality, rather than marketing tactics..
I've heard very mixed things about 2015. There were ripening issues due to the overall weather during the year and during harvest. What I've been hearing from a variety of sources, 2015 has turned out not to be anywhere near as good as first expected during harvest and shortly after. Small issues tend to come to the front quickly as they spend a winter or two in barrel.

2016 was difficult due to the start/stop nature of it and the overall slow ripening during the year. However, if one had the patience and resources to wait and pick only those grapes which were ready were rewarded with some awesome musts. It's probably safe to make the assumption that many small producers, who don't have block planting and/or the means to upend their normal picking patterns, ended up with not so good musts from 2016. That's a short and somewhat simple explanation but 2016 really was a year where the larger companies with more resources* have probably turned out far better musts.


*resources include money, labor, ability to pick only small sections of their vineyards when they were actually ripe, then coming back to other sections later, space to ferment and store small lots of musts, etc.

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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by Axel P » 15:13 Wed 03 May 2017

Dont have a link for Sogrape, talking to people.

Sogevinus does Burmester Arnozelo and Calem (full)

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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by Axel P » 09:32 Thu 04 May 2017

Quinta Nova
Dalva
Cruz
Quinta do Ventozelo
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Axel P
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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by Axel P » 09:37 Thu 04 May 2017

Grahams Malvedos

Dow Bomfim

Both for later release.
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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by christopherpfaff » 12:02 Mon 08 May 2017

there was already a lot of talking about the vintageyear 2015.

I talked to

Dirk Niepoort,
Francisca van Zeller &
Tiago Alves de Sousa


some weeks ago and produced a little video with their statements:

https://youtu.be/zomvyFb1WZ4
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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by g-man » 02:01 Wed 10 May 2017

uncle tom wrote:
08:50 Sat 29 Apr 2017
So with the Symingtons, TFP and Sogrape all declaring their SQs for 2015, it now looks certain that we are not looking at a split declaration, but a general declaration for 2016.

- I wonder whether the Symingtons will also declare a 2016 Cockburn?
was just at a 2015's release tasting with Rupert and Charles.

they did tell a story about h ow Cockburn likes to release certain odd years.
Disclosure: Distributor of Quevedo wines and Quinta do Gomariz

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g-man
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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by g-man » 02:07 Wed 10 May 2017

oh i'll add that the Symingtons gives their warm regards to my fellow forumites.
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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by Axel P » 11:42 Thu 18 May 2017

Although they send out samples, Andresen decided last week not to bottle.

-1

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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by Axel P » 19:07 Thu 25 May 2017

Seara d'Ordens and Churchill Quinta da Gricha

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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by Axel P » 10:42 Mon 29 May 2017

Just back from the Douro... It seems that some producers are still in line to have their Ports approved. Some even are doing it for the second time. I have some problems with that as all of their 2014 have passed at the first time and are a lot weaker in style.

So we are looking for quite some producers to bottle/ declare soon.

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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by Axel P » 16:27 Mon 29 May 2017

There are two Niepoorts:
Label Niepoort Vintage Port 2015 CS (7).JPG
Label Niepoort Vintage Port 2015 CS (7).JPG (108.65 KiB) Viewed 658 times
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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by Andy Velebil » 00:07 Wed 31 May 2017

Axel P wrote:
10:42 Mon 29 May 2017
Just back from the Douro... It seems that some producers are still in line to have their Ports approved. Some even are doing it for the second time. I have some problems with that as all of their 2014 have passed at the first time and are a lot weaker in style.

So we are looking for quite some producers to bottle/ declare soon.

Axel
So you're saying they aren't being approved the first time being tested? As I've said on FTLOP, generally speaking I don't think 2015 is turning out that great after all. Of course some gems will no doubt be produced as is almost always the case, just speaking generally.

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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by Axel P » 07:42 Wed 31 May 2017

Actually I am saying that I have no problems at all with the 2015 Vintage Ports. Just tasted the Niepoorts yesterday: http://worldofport.de/Wein/tasting/Niep ... poort.html

I do not understand why some of the producer's 2015s are not approved at the first time, but their 2014s were, although the 2014 were the weaker Ports.

From what I have seen so far, it will be a fantastic year and the Port industry is giving away some potentially great PR, but I also understand why some producers are reluctant to declare two or more years in a row.

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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by Glenn E. » 23:20 Wed 31 May 2017

Axel P wrote:
07:42 Wed 31 May 2017
although the 2014 were the weaker Ports.
I think it's difficult to say that in general. 2014 produced some superb Port - or could have - but you had to harvest at exactly the right time and get a little bit lucky. I was surprised and disappointed that Graham did not bottle a 2014 Stone Terraces, because we tasted it on the Harvest Tour and it was splendid though of course very young. I guess the 2015 version was simply even better, so they chose to declare 2015 instead. But that then in turn makes me wonder about 2016... and what are Graham's plans for Stone Terraces? Would the declare 3 years in a row if they were all good enough? Or do they intend to release it more like a regular VP, or even more restricted like a VVV or VC super cuvee?

Anyway... I've heard many of the same things that Andy alluded to. 2015 is solid, but not great. Some will produce outstanding Port as is always the case, but it seems like generally speaking it's only maybe an above average year. It would be "good enough" to declare if they were desperate, but if 2016 is already looking better then it makes sense to wait.
Glenn Elliott

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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by uncle tom » 09:08 Thu 01 Jun 2017

I was surprised and disappointed that Graham did not bottle a 2014 Stone Terraces
There was a sudden scramble to get those grapes in before the rain, and although the PR people played the line of them being 'harvested in perfect condition' it required a leap of faith to believe that.

Graham are clearly taking the development of their new 'super cuvee' very seriously, and a willingness to set a high bar and not bottle those years that fail to excel is worthy of respect.
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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by Andy Velebil » 15:26 Thu 01 Jun 2017

uncle tom wrote:
09:08 Thu 01 Jun 2017
I was surprised and disappointed that Graham did not bottle a 2014 Stone Terraces
There was a sudden scramble to get those grapes in before the rain, and although the PR people played the line of them being 'harvested in perfect condition' it required a leap of faith to believe that.

And that appears to be exactly what Niepoort did with their grapes in 2015, no?

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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by AHB » 17:58 Thu 01 Jun 2017

Anyone who I have not already contacted and who would like to be part of a collective purchase of either Noval's 2015 vintage port or SFE's vintage ports please drop me a PM or an email as soon as you can. Thanks.
Top Port in 2017 (so far): Graham Stone Terraces 2015 and Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
2016 Port of the year: Cockburn 1908

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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by Axel P » 14:30 Fri 02 Jun 2017

I did not have any astonishing 2014s yet, anyone?
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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by uncle tom » 14:57 Fri 02 Jun 2017

I've not tried many, but so far none have been remarkable.

On my vintage weighting scale, which assesses both quality and significance and averages out at 1.0, I currently have it down as a 0.2

Previous years to score 0.2 include 1952, 1965, 1986, 1988, 2010 & 2012
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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by Glenn E. » 18:33 Fri 02 Jun 2017

uncle tom wrote:
09:08 Thu 01 Jun 2017
I was surprised and disappointed that Graham did not bottle a 2014 Stone Terraces
There was a sudden scramble to get those grapes in before the rain, and although the PR people played the line of them being 'harvested in perfect condition' it required a leap of faith to believe that.
That's not the way the story went when we were at Quinta dos Malvedos on the harvest tour in 2014. It was earlier than expected, yes, but the grapes were actually harvested comfortably before the rain so it wasn't a scramble. Whether or not they were in "perfect condition" is likely subject to typical winemaker hyperbole, but the grapes were pretty clearly harvested when they wanted to do it, not when forced to do it by impending weather.
Graham are clearly taking the development of their new 'super cuvee' very seriously, and a willingness to set a high bar and not bottle those years that fail to excel is worthy of respect.
I fully agree with this sentiment. But while I do still feel that 2014 was worthy of bottling, if 2015 was even better and they'd rather not bottle in successive years, then by all means bottle 2015 over 2014.
Glenn Elliott

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Re: 2015 declarations

Post by uncle tom » 12:45 Sun 04 Jun 2017

My impression is that they are not going to be squeamish about back to back Stone Terraces declarations, but that part of the strategy to eventually dethrone Nacional is to build up a catalogue of wines that is bereft of weaklings, by showing a greater willingness to blend away those vintages that are less than superb.

Whilst the lagar samples of the '14 may have looked really good, negative traits might easily have surfaced over the subsequent months..
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill

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