Civilised society is...

[Alex Bridgeman]

The London clubs are well known as having a tradition for offering members and visitors a good selection of mature port bought by the club and stored for consumption at some point in the future. Many of the clubs have contributed information towards the book being written on JDAW on declared and shipped vintages.

I was chatting to a friend who is a member of the Carlton Club last night - a Club that currently has 15 mature vintage ports on their wine list, ranging from Dow 1985 back to Smith Woodhouse 1970. The Carlton Club take the civilised practice of offering port to members one step further than most and in a way which is delightful. You can buy a bottle of port and have it decanted into a plain, crystal decanter. If you don't finish the decanter that evening, a luggage tag carrying your name and the date is tied to the neck of the decanter and the decanter is kept in the cellar for up to a week, allowing you to finish off the contents of the decanter at leisure over the course of several days.

What a civilised way to offer mature vintage port to people who might want to drink it.

[DRT]

One would think that one's butler would be able to collect the decanter from the club the following morning so that one could enjoy the Port in the comfort of one's own home?

Is that not an option that they have considered?

[jdaw1]

How very civilised.

[DaveRL]

One would think that one's butler would be able to collect the decanter from the club the following morning so that one could enjoy the Port in the comfort of one's own home?

Is that not an option that they have considered?

Wouldn't one send one's Underbutler for such a task - surely one's Butler is needed to decant the claret?

[Doggett]

One would think that one's butler would be able to collect the decanter from the club the following morning so that one could enjoy the Port in the comfort of one's own home?

Is that not an option that they have considered?

Wouldn't one send one's Underbutler for such a task - surely one's Butler is needed to decant the claret?

Surely that would infer that claret was better than Port...which I am sure some would beg to differ with. A perfect cousin perhaps, but not a lesser one!

Simon

[Alex Bridgeman]

I found it quite interesting when I was looking at the history of how the clubs started up. Back in the mid-1800s the housing shortage was savage, making today's shortage look like a walk in the park. Unless you were extremely wealthy, you might well be living in a single room with a bathroom and possibly a dining room (if you were lucky) shared with 5-6 other people. You might even have had to share your room. You lived with a resident landlord / landlady and had very little privacy. Some of those with disposable income but who couldn't afford to buy their own property grouped together and bought something collectively. The collective space became the extension to the living space. It was somewhere with more elbow room where you could eat food not prepared by the landlord / lady. It had a bar where you could drink something other than gin, chairs which were comfortable and in which you could relax and chat with friends. Some of these clubs accumulated libraries.

If you read the Sherlock Holmes stories you can get some idea of the way in which a couple of "average" men lived - shared sitting room, landlady downstairs who cooked for them, shared bathroom, etc.

I can imagine that if I lived in a studio flat, it would be quite a welcome escape if I had somewhere large and roomy to run to when I felt I needed a bit more space.

Now clubs are seen as the preserve of the wealthy, although I believe this is a misconception.

[DRT]

I can imagine that if I lived in a studio flat, it would be quite a welcome escape if I had somewhere large and roomy to run to when I felt I needed a bit more space.

That's exactly what it will be like for all of us when our children consign us to a care home

[DRT]

Now clubs are seen as the preserve of the wealthy, although I believe this is a misconception.

I think that all comes down to the definition of wealthy. According to most popular newspapers the majority of people who frequent this forum would qualify as tax-dodging fat cats.

I think what you possibly meant was that there is a common perception that clubs are the exclusive domain of upper class aristocracy - "old money" - which I agree having visited a few is not the case.

[djewesbury]

Quite so. That reminds me, I have the table to book at the O&C after the Port Walk...

[Andy Velebil]

If I may ask, what are the annual dues on average for these clubs? I realize it will probably vary greatly, but just looking for an average range.

[djewesbury]

If I may ask, what are the annual dues on average for these clubs? I realize it will probably vary greatly, but just looking for an average range.

Yes it varies a lot but it's probably between £300 and £1000 (latter figure a guess). Members out of town or abroad pay reduced rates. Each club has a long list of reciprocal clubs around the world. I can use facilities at the Squadron A Association and the Down Town Club in NYC, as well as the Faculty Club at UC Berkeley and the Academy of Magical Arts, Berkeley! Any idea what the latter is?

[Andy Velebil]

If I may ask, what are the annual dues on average for these clubs? I realize it will probably vary greatly, but just looking for an average range.

Yes it varies a lot but it's probably between £300 and £1000 (latter figure a guess). Members out of town or abroad pay reduced rates. Each club has a long list of reciprocal clubs around the world. I can use facilities at the Squadron A Association and the Down Town Club in NYC, as well as the Faculty Club at UC Berkeley and the Academy of Magical Arts, Berkeley! Any idea what the latter is?

thanks
and no idea, never heard of it before.

[mosesbotbol]

I thought most clubs like aree like 3K a year, but also need a sponsor.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I thought most clubs like aree like 3K a year, but also need a sponsor.

I think the US private clubs are much more expensive than their equivalent in the UK, but most UK clubs do need a sponsor who is a member of the club. There are some exceptions, like the Royal Overseas League which treat membership of one of their affiliated organisations as the equivalent to a sponsoring member.

[uncle tom]

Do the members of these clubs get to see the inventories of their cellars? I'm intrigued to know where the great port cellars are these days.

A friend with a very long career in the wine trade reckons that the best college port cellar is now at All Souls at Oxford, and that the once mighty cellars at Cambridge are now greatly depleted, but beyond that I have virtually no information.

Are university colleges required to respond to FOI requests..? I wonder...

[DRT]

Are university colleges required to respond to FOI requests..? I wonder...

I very much doubt it unless it was a request relating to an individual's personal data. The contents of the cellar will be the property of the wine club, which is not a public body so would be under no obligation to provide information about its assets.

[DRT]

Do the members of these clubs get to see the inventories of their cellars? I'm intrigued to know where the great port cellars are these days.

Julian has visited all of the Oxbridge colleges and almost all of the clubs. I think he probably has a better idea of who still has what than anyone else on the planet.

[jdaw1]

No, I saw old data.

These places are trying to avoid clichés. (Yes, avoiding clichés is itself a cliché, I know.) So Port is something that is no longer seen as essential in Cambridge and Oxford colleges. (Yes, I know.)

[Antface]

In my youth i visited all of the working mens clubs in Tilbury and the cellars were somewhat disappointing, normally a keg of Long Life together with a few cases of Corona cola, I seem to remember a few sticky bottles of Harveys Bristol Cream for when they had funeral parties in.