A weekend port?

[ProfS]

I'm planning on opening a bottle of Calem for over the weekend. It will be drunk across two nights, Saturday and Sunday. Would a 1983 be more robust than a 1977 for this purpose? Or would it not make a noticeable difference? Any thoughts welcome...(I suppose I could open both and test this - have I just answered my own question?)

[flash_uk]

I could open both and test this

A fine experiment - good luck!

[jdaw1]

Would a 1983 be more robust than a 1977 for this purpose?

You mean, which this weekend and which next weekend?

Either, then the other.

[ProfS]

You mean, which this weekend and which next weekend?

Ah, see the confusion. I was meaning open both in parallel and taste both over the 2 days to see how long they hold up.

Would you expect any difference?

[LGTrotter]

The traditional/hidebound/reactionary (delete according to viewpoint) approach would be to start with the younger wine and move on to the older. Or start with the lesser wine and move on to the better, as I have had neither of these I could not say which is better.

[DRT]

You mean, which this weekend and which next weekend?

Ah, see the confusion. I was meaning open both in parallel and taste both over the 2 days to see how long they hold up.

Would you expect any difference?

Yes, but have no idea what it would be or which would be better at various points over the weekend.

Your task is to carry out the experiment and report back

[jdaw1]

Your task is to carry out the experiment and report back

✔

[WS1]

I would not open both bts! Both can be very good ports but can be also handicapped by VA. Personally I think the 83 egdes the 77. But for current drinking the 77 is probably a bit better if on form. Both ports will potentially be handicapped by cork issues due to being part of the dark age of ports. So try one and see if pleasant drinking is possible.

regards

WS1

[PhilW]

Wolfgang! Someone on TPF is proposing to open two vintages of a shipper to do a comparison, and you're dissuading them?!
To ProfS - Please ignore Wolfgang! Opening both is a fine idea; yes the '83 and '77 will differ, hopefully both should be good current drinking, and we will be interested to hear how you find them.

[ProfS]

Okay, this is what I've decided to do...

I've decanted the '83 and taken a time zero glass (will then sample over 48hrs and report back as instructed). I have another '83 that I'll run the parallel study with the '77 in 3 weeks time.

Time zero.... Plums and toffee with quite a large 'rice wine/saké' overtone! Reminds me of a little of a '55 MacKenzie I had a couple of months ago.

[DRT]

I would not open both bts! Both can be very good ports but can be also handicapped by VA.

What possible advantage is there in not opening them for this reason?

If either or both of the bottles are tainted today they will be tainted tomorrow, next week, next year and in ten years from now. Opening both today gives the answer today. Opening one later doesn't answer the question ProfS was asking.

ProfS, I think you posed a very interesting question about two Ports that are not often encountered. Given that you have them both and have show a willingness to compare them I for one would be very interested to know the answer to your question whenever you feel is the right time to answer it.

[WS1]

Wolfgang! Someone on TPF is proposing to open two vintages of a shipper to do a comparison, and you're dissuading them?!
To ProfS - Please ignore Wolfgang! Opening both is a fine idea; yes the '83 and '77 will differ, hopefully both should be good current drinking, and we will be interested to hear how you find them.

I would not say dissuading them but honestly managing expectations that when opening Calem 77 or 83 you not always can expect a good port. At least I find it affecting my mood when I am looking fwd to a good bt of port and VA etc. destroy it. Then you open the back up and if you have bad luck the same happens again. As you see with my answer I had this quite often with ports from the 80s or 77s so in my eyes take your chance once and have as a back up bt something else more predictable.

regards

WS1

[WS1]

I would not open both bts! Both can be very good ports but can be also handicapped by VA.

What possible advantage is there in not opening them for this reason?

If either or both of the bottles are tainted today they will be tainted tomorrow, next week, next year and in ten years from now. Opening both today gives the answer today. Opening one later doesn't answer the question ProfS was asking.

.....

You are right and wrong! It is clear if the bts are affected than they would be also in the future. But for a relaxing weekend port at least I do not want to take that many chances; hence something more predictable as a back up is imho better. I am not sure what you do with VA or corked port or wine but I make a Stew out of it. At least then the tainted port is used and port in Stews is really nice. And using two bts makes a huge amount of Stew which is not desirable for me.
Obviously you are not psychologicallly affected by bad bts and open one after another in the hope to get a good one. I am not hence my cautious suggestion.

regards

WS1

[DRT]

Would a 1983 be more robust than a 1977 ... I could open both and test this

for a relaxing weekend port at least I do not want to take that many chances

You are answering a different question to the one ProfS asked. The question deals with the comparison between the development of two different ports over the course of two days. Your answer relates to having a nice bottle of port to drink over a relaxing weekend. Those are not the same things

[ProfS]

Okay, this is what I've decided to do...

I've decanted the '83 and taken a time zero glass (will then sample over 48hrs and report back as instructed).

Time zero.... Plums and toffee with quite a large 'rice wine/saké' overtone! Reminds me of a little of a '55 MacKenzie I had a couple of months ago.

Time +12 hours.... More toffee and treacle coming through, much less 'rice wine/saké' overtone, longer finish

[DaveRL]

Mmm. I'm reading this slightly pre lunch time with non drinking relatives staying. Now I'm sorely tempted to open a bottle of something, and with said relatives, perhaps it could even be considered a medicinal requirement. Perhaps with it open I could keep myself from drinking too much of it until after a sensible decant time.

[ProfS]

Okay, this is what I've decided to do...

I've decanted the '83 and taken a time zero glass (will then sample over 48hrs and report back as instructed).

Time zero.... Plums and toffee with quite a large 'rice wine/saké' overtone! Reminds me of a little of a '55 MacKenzie I had a couple of months ago.

Time +12 hours.... More toffee and treacle coming through, much less 'rice wine/saké' overtone, longer finish

Time +24 hours.... Now evolving into a banana toffee and cola cubes, much more rounded, no 'rice wine/saké' overtone (sweeter with the England lead over Wales at half time!)

[DRT]

sweeter with the England lead over Wales at half time!

Has it suddenly turned a tad sour?

[ProfS]

sweeter with the England lead over Wales at half time!

Has it suddenly turned a tad sour?

Sour! It's been thrown out...[sulks in dark corner]

[ProfS]

Okay, this is what I've decided to do...

I've decanted the '83 and taken a time zero glass (will then sample over 48hrs and report back as instructed).

Time zero.... Plums and toffee with quite a large 'rice wine/saké' overtone! Reminds me of a little of a '55 MacKenzie I had a couple of months ago.

Time +12 hours.... More toffee and treacle coming through, much less 'rice wine/saké' overtone, longer finish

Time +24 hours.... Now evolving into a banana toffee and cola cubes, much more rounded, no 'rice wine/saké' overtone (sweeter with the England lead over Wales at half time!)

Time +36 hours.... Much less nose, still some banana toffee (however, holding up this morning better than I!)

[ProfS]

Okay, this is what I've decided to do...

I've decanted the '83 and taken a time zero glass (will then sample over 48hrs and report back as instructed).

Time zero.... Plums and toffee with quite a large 'rice wine/saké' overtone! Reminds me of a little of a '55 MacKenzie I had a couple of months ago.

Time +12 hours.... More toffee and treacle coming through, much less 'rice wine/saké' overtone, longer finish

Time +24 hours.... Now evolving into a banana toffee and cola cubes, much more rounded, no 'rice wine/saké' overtone (sweeter with the England lead over Wales at half time!)

Time +36 hours.... Much less nose, still some banana toffee (however, holding up this morning better than I!)

Time +46 hours.... Toffee nose and taste, seemed better than +36 hours but that may be due to sampling at a more appropriate time of day (9am Sunday am tasting not recommended).

Conclusion: +24 hours was the peak and then down hill (will do a '77 v '83 Calem head to head over 48 hours in a few weeks time and report back on my original question).

[Alex Bridgeman]

The general old wives wisdom is that vintage port should be drunk within a couple of days of being decanted, and your experiment seems to support this wisdom.

I did something similar a few years ago with a bottle of Vesuvio 1994 but that time I felt that the port was actually better after 4 days in the decanter than on day one!

[ProfS]

I did something similar a few years ago with a bottle of Vesuvio 1994 but that time I felt that the port was actually better after 4 days in the decanter than on day one!

Do you think younger ports generally last longer? I may also include a '95 Calem along with the '77 and '83 in the next weekend trial.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I do generally feel that younger - or bigger - ports last longer in the decanter than older ports.

[Andy Velebil]

I do generally feel that younger - or bigger - ports last longer in the decanter than older ports.

+1


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